Jorge Araiz, the rhythm guitarist from Spanish death doom metal act In Loving Memory, has passed away following an intense battle with cancer.
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This article featured in the very first issue of Prog. It originated from a Classic Rock Pink Floyd cover story, when Is There Anybody Out There? The Wall Live 1980â81 had been released. Wright was not initially interviewed, and then only a tiny part of a conversation featured in a subsequent issue of the magazine. Prog ran the entire interview in 2009.
Back in 1999 I spoke to Roger Waters, David Gilmour and Nick Mason for a Classic Rock magazine cover story on The Wall. We were one of two UK publications granted rare access to a band notorious for its dislike of courting the press. Pre-Live 8, the frictions which had split the band, with Waters going solo and unsuccessfully suing Gilmour and Mason for continuing under the Pink Floyd banner, were still all too evident, with recriminations still being bandied about (the delightfully placid Mason aside).
We tried to speak to Richard Wright too, but were told the now late-keyboard player was âsomewhere in Franceâ. Given that Wright was famously sacked by Waters during the making of the album, yet still toured with the band on the resultant shows as a hired hand, his views seemed integral. Others, it appears, thought not.
Within days of publication I received a phone call from Wrightâs office. âRick wants to talk to you,â I was told and promptly summoned to his Kensington Mews flat. Initially angry, Wright vented on issues in which he felt heâd been misrepresented and set out his take on the situation. It made for fascinating listening and highlighted what a dysfunctional unit Pink Floyd could be, despite the fact theyâd made some of the most ground-breakingly astounding music the rock world has ever heard.
Since then, of course, the foursome of Waters, Gilmour, Mason and Wright finally buried the hatchet and appeared in Hyde Park for 2005âs Live 8, and the sentiments that flowed back in 1999 might no longer represent how band members feel today. Wrightâs sad death from cancer in September 2008 has put paid to any faint hopes the quartet would reunite once more.
In the end, space dictated we only run a small news story from the interview. Now you can read all of Wrightâs fascinating wordsâŠ
You say you want to talk to us to put forward your side of the story. What in particular were you unhappy with?
Various issues come up. Namely saying that I sat in the studio not really doing anything, but because I wanted to get producerâs points. In the beginning â how it worked right up until Animals â an album was co-produced by the band. But when Bob Ezrin was brought in for The Wall, I did have reservations about bringing in an outside producer. Not because of a financial thing of losing production points, because I felt that the band was losing one of its strengths, which was that Pink Floyd would fight each other sometimes â not physically, but all hands together, as a group. I think our best work came that way. It was a difficult issue, because by this time I wasnât getting along with Roger, and with The Wall, Roger had come in with two completed pieces of work. Itâs very difficult when you look back, and I think the decision to have an outside producer was the right one, but at the time I felt pretty sure that the Floyd was losing how it used to work. But that was in the beginning. Once I got to know Bob, I thought it was very good that we had him there. If he hadnât been there, The Wall wouldnât have been made, as there was much friction going on with the band. All credit to Roger, he came in with a very rough demo, but I do remember sitting there in Britannia Row with David and Bob and Roger and wondering how we could make it better. Now how much input I or Dave put in to improve Rogerâs original concept, I donât know, but the band was there. There was friction between Roger and I. And there had been friction between us during Animals.
When did the friction that would result in your sacking start, do you think?
There was this friction even during The Dark Side Of The Moon, where we the three of us â Dave, Roger and me â were writers. A lot of the concept came from Roger. But we had discussions, arguments, over who should get the share of the credits for songwriting. There was friction with Wish You Were Here. But sometimes it was very good and helped make good records. There has always been friction between me and Roger, right from the beginning. Personality-wise, we just didnât get on. I can remember the friction when we were still students at Regent Street Polytechnic before the band turned professional. There was this thing between us. But it was a healthy thing. We would not choose to be friends, even at this time, Roger and I. But I could work with him because I could recognise the qualities in the band.
But it was essentially the friction between you and Roger that caused the problems?
I have to say Roger, to his credit, would come up with âThe Big Ideaâ. That was his role in the band â sometimes very extreme ideas. And Dave and I provided the music to his ideas. That was how the band worked. Some of his ideas â he wanted sound effects blasting out to cover the music, and Dave and I would refuse. He annoyed me, and I annoyed him, just being the way I am. Iâm a more reticent person and so I wouldnât voice my opinions as strongly as he did. And sometimes that can be interpreted as not having an opinion. But when it came to The Wall, it was no longer a band anyway. But I feel I formed this band for Godâs sake! And I helped Roger a hell of a lot because he wasnât a musician when we started. And so did Dave. As Dave said, he feels it was wrong for me to be thrown out, and the way it should have been sorted out was to sit down and talk it out. From Animals on, maybe even earlier, Roger felt he was the band and that all of us were useful to his idea. It wasnât like that, but he got that feeling. But I can understand why he got that feeling, because he was the one that pushed us all. Dave and I were more laid-back, sometimes maybe lazy… His was a very important role but it only works with Dave and me working with him. And you can use the success of his solo albums as proof that there was a chemistry between the four. By the time of Animals I had not written anything.
Why was that?
Thatâs purely a personal thing but I hadnât come up with anything and I had very little to offer. Dave had little to offer. But I think my keyboard playing is very good. When you get to The Wall and Roger came up with the idea for another album, and at this point I still hadnât written anything. It always used to be a joke that you saved your best stuff for your solo album and I know that isnât the case with me!
How do you view your solo albums these days? Roger was rather scathing in the interview [Waters refers to âhis awful solo albumsâ in the original article].
This is Roger. After 18 years maybe heâs changed. Clearly in interviews this anger towards the band carries on after he left, and this belief of how important he was to the band and no one else was is still there. It amazes me that he still has this and that he canât look back and see that some of his best work was when we were together. Same old Roger. Why did he say that? I think my first solo album [1978âs Wet Dream] considering the circumstances I was in wasnât great, it was OK. The Zee one (1984âs Identity, recorded with Dee Harris from Fashion, pictured left) was a disaster and he has every right to say so. That was a period in my life when I was lost. But my last one [1996âs Broken China] I am extremely proud of. It wasnât a commercial success,
but neither was his. Heâs saying his last solo album [at the time, 1992âs Amused To Death] was the most brilliant thing on the planet â and that history will show it was a great, great piece of work. This idea that his solo work is great and everybody elseâs is terrible is something beyond all that. He needs to say that, I donât know for what reason. I wasnât upset by what he said. I expected it. Thatâs the Roger I know. I thought some of Amused To Death was very, very good and in other parts I donât like this kind of stuff. And if heâd been working with the Floyd, that was the kind of stuff that wouldnât have made it onto the album.
When I look back, I think my solo album was about depression and my personal experience of someone else having depression. At the time of The Wall I think I was depressed. For what reasons, possibly divorce, a terrible relationship with my first wife, and I think now I wasnât offering everything I had because I wasnât feeling very good within myself. I didnât know I was in that state, but Iâm pretty sure that the others interpreted it as he doesnât care, heâs not interested â particularly Roger. He made it extremely difficult for me to work. And you can ask Bob Ezrin, I think he had planned to get rid of me for personal reasons rather than musical, so tried to make it as hard as possible. Funnily enough, talking to [Pink Floyd engineer] James Guthrie, whoâs very reliable, he said, âYour playing is greatâ. So whatâs going on here?
Somewhere itâs mentioned that I lived in the studio, while they had their families. But actually I was living in the studio and missing my family, my children desperately, because they had to go to school. Whereas theirs were young enough to be with them. I stayed in the studio, and theyâd say âWhy do you go in to work at night?â. And it was because there were no engineers there, the whole album had been mapped out, and I could go in and do a piano part â and it was very hard if Roger or Bob were there.
But this idea that I was sitting around, wasting my time, is not really fair. But on other hand, I was slightly depressed, maybe really depressed. Since Iâve been talking to a therapist later in my life, I realised I probably was and I didnât contribute as much as I should.
Everything seems to have come to a head when you all went on holiday, mid-recording, in August 1979 [Waters claims Wrightâs reaction to being called back to the studio a week early was âTell Roger to fuck offâ].
We all agreed to have a holiday. Roger had already gone to LA, Dave may have gone there as well, I canât remember. And then a week before I agreed, it was decided to come together again. And up until this point I had no knowledge this was going on. Now reading this, it was obvious he was planning all this way before I thought he was. Anyway, I had a plan from the manager to come back now and start recording. And my reaction was, âNo, heâs been sent to do this, heâs testing me. Weâve all agreed and I had specific time with my children, and there was no indication to me that we were that much behind schedule. Will you come now? No, Iâm coming on the agreed dateâ. But I didnât tell Roger to fuck off. I wouldnât say that. And that was the last I heard of it, until I arrived in LA and [manager] Steve OâRourke said to me, âRoger wants you out of the band”.
Youâve since seen each other again though, of course?
Another thing I read in a magazine was that I went to see Roger play live and I came backstage and Iâd âhad a coupleâ â which I hadnât. I felt very awkward, but Jon Carin was a keyboard player for us and Roger said, âYou must comeâ. I didnât want to. And then in this article, he said I was very friendly to his face but out front I was slagging him off. And this made me very angry. How did he know? Who told him? Itâs not true. I was sitting in the front, finding it quite difficult listening to him perform Pink Floyd songs, because I wanted to be up there. When they were playing Comfortably Numb and Wish You Were Here it just wasnât as good as when the four of us were performing and certainly not as good as the three of us, because Daveâs vocals and guitar playing are so definite.
But when he got to his solo work I could relax. I was quite impressed. I was also quite impressed with him as a performer, because itâs not easy. He had a very small light show. He couldnât hide behind the lights, like you can in a Pink Floyd show. But he was upfront on stage and I thought his performance was good for his solo stuff, and also his singing. I thought, âMy God, heâs really singing wellâ and I know that Roger had a hell of a time tuning vocals. And I subsequently heard â and he can say whether itâs true or not â that actually his vocals were taped. But at the time I thought, ‘These vocals are really in tune and wonderful’. Then I subsequently heard, actually theyâre taped and heâs miming a lot of it. One person sitting next to me recognised me and said, âGreat, youâre here, are you getting up on stage?â I said, âI donât think soâ. He said, âWhat do you think of the show?â And I told him that I found it hard to listen to the Pink Floyd stuff but Iâm quite impressed with his performance. Thatâs all I said. That is not slagging him off. I think Roger just made it up.
And I think, âWhy do you have to say these things, Roger?â It was difficult for both of us, backstage. I hadnât seen him for 18, 19 years. I didnât want to go, but Jon persuaded me, and my wife persuaded me â she didnât know what happened â and I thought, Why not, Weâre grown men now. So I went backstage, shook his hand and said, âHow are you?â And we both felt awkward. And that was it. There was no great meaningful conversation. Iâm at the point where all this bullshit should stop. I think itâs kind of juvenile now to keep on fighting.
The very fact the pair of you met up suggests some thawing of the relationship?
Heâs a very good talker with a very bright mind. I asked Jon Carin, âHow is it to work with Roger?â He said, âHeâs sweet and kind and very nice to the bandâ. I believe Eric Clapton playing with him [Clapton featured on Waterâs 1984 The Pros And Cons Of Hitch Hiking] must have been a bad time in Ericâs life to go out with Roger Waters. But the fact that half the crowd had come to see Eric Clapton â and Eric would do a solo and the crowd would applaud it, and Roger going backstage, âWhat the fuck are you doing Eric, this is my showâ. That Roger I know about. The sweet, kind Roger that Jon told me about I donât know. He has a lot of bitterness and anger. I had a lot of bitterness and anger about how I was treated. It was simply this: either leave or I wonât record The Wall. I was in a no-win situation. If he carried out his bluff, financially we were all terrified. Dave and Nick wouldnât support me. And to this day, I think âWhat if Iâd called his bluff, what would have happened?â. After that I thought and thought. My conclusion was I didnât like the way the band was going, and the way he was operating, this band wasnât going to last much longer anyway. But my attitude was âIâm leaving, but I want to finish the recording and do the live showsâ. I couldnât just walk out the door. I know Dave and Nick felt bad about it â but Dave said he would never have asked me to leave.
How on earth did you cope on The Wall tour, as a member of the band, but not a member of the band?
I shut off the whole idea that I was leaving the band. I actually fooled myself that Iâd play as well as I could and maybe heâll admit he was wrong. So I put everything into it. The pictures look like weâre all together. I was in limbo. âIâm going to try and enjoy this showâ, that was my feeling. Roger was saying somewhere that we had separate caravans and changing rooms â and we lost it because we were all in our separate places. He wanted it that way. Dave and Nick and I didnât want it that way. Heâd travel in his own car to the gig, different hotels from anyone else. He created the isolation. I canât say what happened on The Wall movie or The Final Cut.
What do you think of The Final Cut?
I donât particularly like it. I look on it as a solo album and I think he does too.
What do you make of the allegations that Dave suggested if you were out, why not get rid of Nick Mason too?
I think the feeling is that what Roger really wanted was for him to become the leader with Dave Gilmour as his sidekick playing the guitar. They used other drummers on The Wall â so Roger might have thought he could use session players. I canât say… I donât know what Roger was planning. They used to be mates, Nick and Roger…
How did the process of you rejoining Pink Floyd for the Momentary Lapse Of Reason tour work out?
Iâd heard Roger had left the band but that Dave and Nick were making a new Pink Floyd record, and I was in Greece. It says in your feature that my second wife went along to Dave. This is quite possible but I went to see Dave and said I would be very interested in getting involved again. I donât know if my wife went to Dave. I donât know if Dave and Nick were having a fight with Roger because I came into the middle or end of the recording of A Momentary Lapse Of Reason, but I think itâs interesting â we hadnât seen each other in a long time. I remember having a meal with them and Steve in a restaurant in Hampstead and I think they wanted to see how I was. I passed the test and I was invited to play on the album and do the tour. That tour for me was probably one of the most enjoyable tours that weâd ever done. I still had this anger about what had happened with Roger and that it would never work again if he was in the band. Everybody has these egos. Dave has said Nick and Rick couldnât play on that tour. He was pretty bad on the tour. He suggested that he was leading us through and helping us. It wasnât like that. He came and played on my solo album on one track â and he couldnât play properly. No criticism of Dave but it was because he hadnât been on the road. By the time we got through the rehearsals we were playing near to our capabilities. After five or six shows we improved. But we werenât that bad.
Typically Roger was very critical of A Momentary Lapse Of Reason.
Roger has criticisms of that album which I think are fair â because Dave did bring in a lot of people to help him make the album. Itâs not a band album at all.
So where you a full band member when it came to recording The Division Bell?
Full member is partly true. Not in terms of contract. Dave and Nick didnât want to give away what theyâd gained. And it came very close to a point where I wasnât going to do The Division Bell because I didnât feel that what we agreed was fair. And interestingly Dave said you have this right to be a member of the band, but when it comes to the nitty gritty wouldnât give it back, which I think was kind of selfish. Me rejoining the band when they were still fighting Roger helped them, because Rogerâs criticism was that it wasnât Pink Floyd anymore, but by me being there gave them three members again â and two of them were writers.
Musically, Iâm a full member again. Contractually, no. Now, if anything happens again, itâs full member or nothing – thatâs my attitude. I hope something does happen and everyone else does. I think Daveâs problem is he worked damn hard on Momentary Lapse⊠and he thinks he felt he took the whole thing on his shoulders and he did. When it came to The Division Bell, he felt he was taking the whole thing on his shoulders and, again, he was, but he didnât want to delegate, he didnât want contributions from me. I think he thought, if there was the next Floyd album heâd have a hell of a lot of work to do. But it doesnât have to be like that. It could be written the way we used to. But I have been lazy and havenât done enough because I had big changes in my life, although I have quite a bit of material stashed away. Weâve both been lazy. Daveâs reticent about the future but I really do hope we do something again.
How do you feel now about the fact that you were the only member of Floyd to make money from touring The Wall?
I took no pride in the fact that I made money and they didnât. There are certain purists who donât think that Pink Floyd is the real band since Syd left, and if you listen to the first two albums and what Syd contributed to it and what we played, sure, after that Pink Floyd changed very very much so. Now, most peopleâs feeling is that what Pink Floyd is, is what we did after Syd left. My feeling is that as long as Iâm on the keyboards and Dave is playing his guitarâŠ
I wish we could have all been great buddies and carried on. Rogerâs real problem is he thinks his solo albums are the real Pink Floyd, but no, Roger, theyâre not. But I donât know what goes on inside his head.
