Category: news

In 2017 drummer, composer and painter Terry Bozzio – who’s just been named as the new drummer in King Crimson side-project Beat – looked back on a his life and times with Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart and UK, and said his 2010 collaboration with Allan Holdsworth, Beat’s Tony Levin and Crimson’s Pat Mastelotto was one of his greatest experiences.

You’d had quite a lot of experience before your audition for Frank Zappa. But was it still daunting?

It was amazing! He said he wanted to hear me after he’d heard the rest of the guys, and nobody wanted to audition after me. He said, “It looks like you’ve got the gig if you want it.” My words were, “Are you sure I can do this?” He said, “Do you want to do it?” I said, “Yeah!” I wasn’t sure if I was heavy enough to work with his guys – he told me that if I was willing to work hard I could do it. So like a good father, he took me in.

I came to him so naive. Every negative thing he said about the music business or politics I almost refused to believe because I couldn’t go there – I couldn’t lose hope, you know what I mean?

But everything he said has come to pass. Everything he ever said, as cynical as it was, was true. He was really one of these guys who was like an arrow. He could cut through anything, get right to the heart of it and sum it up in the most succinct way.

How did you come to leave Zappa’s band?

I’d been playing with Patrick O’Hearn, Mark Isham and Pete Maunu as Group 87 and we’d been to audition for a deal at CBS. I was late for rehearsals with Frank because of it. He sensed what had happened.

We started playing something but he felt that I didn’t have the heart for it any more. He said, “Bozzio, step into my office.” We went behind the little riser in the rehearsal studio and he said, “I think it’s time to go out and do your own thing.” And once again, I said, “Are you sure I can do this?” Like a good father he kicked me out of the nest.

What’s the thing you regret the most about that period with Zappa?

That I didn’t ask questions. I didn’t want to show my ignorance. Many times he used words I didn’t understand and I’d just laugh because I didn’t want to appear stupid. I wish I’d asked what the words meant. Stuff like that.

But I was young and just happy to be there, going through all the rock’n’roll, groupie bullshit. Nobody can tell you how to handle success. When it comes you’re on your own, and you just get swept along with whatever’s happening. Later, you learn through experience that it may not have been the best way to do this or that.

What was the transition from Frank Zappa to UK like?

It was painful. It was depressing. I did the Group 87 record, but as a sideman – looking at the record contract was really shocking so I’d decided not to sign. A year later I think I had an audition for Thin Lizzy that didn’t come together. I’m not a drink-fight-and-fuck kind of guy. Gary Moore wanted me and we got on great, but I was not in that same headspace as the rest of those guys. So it was the right thing.

Eddie Jobson talked to me about [departing members] Bill Bruford and Allan Holdsworth wanting to be more jazz, whereas John Wetton and he wanted to go more rock. So I started in UK in ’78. That was a tough transition. I was still just a sideman; I didn’t want to sign another contract where the company owns everything into perpetuity.

Eddie and John made all the decisions, and there’s always that Upstairs, Downstairs thing when you deal with the English! Eddie and I just cannot see eye to eye. He looks at it like a corporation and he’s the CEO, and I don’t feel I’m respected as somebody who contributed to what they are, and even what they can be today. I have much respect for Eddie as a composer and a musician; but as people, we have two different ideas about how things should be.

Out of all your varied bands and projects over the years, what stands out for you?

My stint with Allan Holdsworth, Tony Levin and Pat Mastelotto in 2010 under the name HoBoLeMa was one of the best experiences I ever had. I regard that band as incredibly important. Allan was playing his ass off! He’s a complete master of that instrument and he’s taken it places that nobody else has.

It’s a tough environment for musicians to make a living. How do you stay optimistic?

With my work. I release my music and my art on my website, so now I can sell directly to the public. I’ve been very, very lucky and I’m grateful to have had the life experience I’ve had. I’ve never had to have a day job. I’ve been lucky to just survive and learn and try to grow from all the experiences I’ve had. I’m very blessed to have had many brushes with greatness.

On 36th studio album Stories From Time And Space, released in 2024, Hawkwind showed they’d lost none of their sense of global injustice. Bandleader Dave Brock told Prog about the drive behind their new music, why he was continuing to fight for an alternative society, and responded to recent concerns about his health.

Ask a musician what the highlight of their recent tour might have been, and the answers will range from positive crowd reaction to new material, or a hospitality rider that included a decent feed as much as libation, to perhaps wifi that worked or just good old camaraderie on the tour bus.

For Dave Brock, linchpin of the venerable space rock institution that is Hawkwind, it’s all of these things and more – not least as the six-date tour he completed in support of 36th album, Stories From Time And Space, very nearly didn’t happen.

“It was quite hard going because prior to that, I had just come out of hospital,” recalls Brock as he talks to Prog from his farmhouse in Devon. “I got Covid in February and I was really ill. It affects your breathing a lot and, you know, singing and all that was difficult. It knocked my heart out of sync, so I had to go to hospital. I’ve had all the checks.”

Much like the stoic generation of which he’s a member, 82-year-old Brock isn’t one to dwell on what might have been or what he had to go through to get match fit, so we’ll draw a veil over his recuperation. Instead, he’s more interested in how the tour developed and how his enforced hospitalisation actually brought out the best in his bandmates – guitarist-singer Magnus Martin, keyboardist Tim ‘Thighpaulsandra’ Lewis, bassist Doug Mackinnon and longtime drummer Richard Chadwick.

“I started getting better as I went along,” Brock reassures. “The band had been rehearsing without me for all of March. And because they didn’t know if I was going to be able to do it or not, they’d been practising all their vocals. The good thing was, all of them can sing. Some of them say they can’t, but they really can. So, when I came back, we had really good backing vocals!”

Not only is Brock pleased with the way the tour went, he’s also thrilled by the reaction the new material has been receiving. Rarely looking in the rear-view mirror, it’s precisely this attitude that’s ensured the continuation of Hawkwind’s late-period purple patch that began with the eerily prescient The Machine Stops in 2016.

And with Stories From Time And Space, the band have consolidated their strengths – melodies that burrow their way into the brain, insistent riffs, instrumental workouts, all driven by the allegory of science fiction – to keep moving ahead. It gives them the opportunity to bend their new songs this way and that, helping them take their place in the band’s ever-increasing pantheon.

“I’d hate to just constantly play the old numbers,” stresses Brock. “We do lots of new numbers, and the more you play them, the more they change and the more interesting they become. Some of the stuff started off at maybe about four minutes. And now you can play it for about eight or 10 because it’s got more interesting. People feel more comfortable with it and we can go off on tangents.” He adds: “You’ve got to get the balance. You can’t just rely on your old material, because the music is going forward.”

Hawkwind’s sonic attack, along with their fabled and gloriously intense light show, is also pulling through a new generation of fans in its slipstream – a fact that tickles Dave Brock pink. “We do actually get quite a few young fans, and that’s a good thing,” he says with no little pride. “We’ve got a really good fanbase, and they actually travel around. A lot of them come every night and a lot of them bring their families and kids on tour. It’s really good fun!”

Crucially, even after 55 years of playing and recording, they still manage the high-wire balancing act that has entertainment on one side and something to say on the other. A visceral and occasionally disorientating experience that’s left its mark on scenes as disparate as psychedelia and rave, Hawkwind are mindful not to churn it out for the sake of it.

“What you’re doing is you’re entertaining people,” reasons Brock. “The objective of music is an escapism for people to enjoy themselves. We’ve got a really good laser light show; we’ve got a really good back projection. The guys who do all our stuff want it to be a wonderful show. And so the audience come along wanting to be taken off on a big trip. That’s what musicians want to do: they want to entertain people and make it a wonderful experience. And if you perform really well, they’ll go, ‘Wow! That was a really fantastic evening!’ That’s what you do it for.”

Underpinning that entertainment is Hawkwind’s central and long-standing opposition to the mainstream. This is the continuation of a journey that began more than half a century ago in the urban squalor of Ladbroke Grove and Notting Hill, and honed to perfection as the de facto house band of the free-festival ‘freak’ scene of the 70s and 80s. Their abhorrence of the political elite and the institutions that keep them there beats at the heart of their oeuvre.

“The same things occur,” says Brock with a sigh. “You know, doing The Psychedelic Warlords (Disappear In Smoke): ‘Sick of politicians, harassment and laws/All we do is get screwed up by other people’s flaws.’ The words mean the same thing as they did many years ago. You do songs about situations and you think, ‘Crikey – 50 years on and nothing’s really changed.’ Unfortunately, it’s getting worse.”

Warming to the theme, Brock continues, “You know We Took The Wrong Step Years Ago? That was influenced by Rachel Carson, who wrote a book in the 60s called Silent Spring; she actually wrote all about pollution. And now you look at the amount of sewage and dumping that’s going on in the rivers. Years and years ago, we used to go swimming down where we live here and we all became ill. We all thought we had flu, but it was the bloody water!

“We found out that there was a slurry pit about a mile down the river, which was leaking into the river. Eventually, the farmer got fined £5,000 for leaking his slurry into the river and polluting the river and all the fish died. This is happening on a huge scale now. The water companies are more interested in making money instead of investing.”

Turning his ire to the ill-fated HS2 project, he continues, “I mean, look at the stupid railway system. Do we really need to spend all this money on a high- speed train going to Birmingham? Billions and billions of pounds wasted and all those people who have lost their homes because of it; it’s all wasted time. We have no control, I don’t think, anymore. So we write songs about it.”

Despite the passing of the years, Brock insists that he’s still making music for the same reasons that he always has – though the causes may have changed over the years, Hawkwind are here to highlight them as they continually struggle against oppression and fighting for the possibility of an alternative society.

“We were younger when we were doing the free festivals; as you get older you slow down a bit,” he says. “But we do lots of stuff constantly for animal charities to bring attention to what’s going on – like dogs being kidnapped and having ransoms demanded for them. A dog to a family of people with kids is part of that family, and they’re living entities. I mean, there’s so much going on all around the world; you try and bring attention to certain things.”

So, while Hawkwind’s commitment to an alternative way of life is as solid as ever, their use of psychedelic substances as a means of composing music and fuel for their belief system and lifestyle has long been shelved. “At our age in life?” chuckles Brock. “I think when you’re younger, you can accommodate these things. You don’t have to take them forever. Once you’ve opened the doors of perception, you can see what’s going on, and therefore you don’t have to take drugs anymore because you’ve got the ideas.” He adds sagely: “And remember the saying – ‘a little is always better than too much.’”

The only chemistry that interests Brock at this stage is the one that exists between the band’s principal players. Not for them the internecine fighting and drug and alcohol problems that blighted previous formations – it’s all about the joy of making music as a coherent and focused unit. “It’s a nice line-up at the moment,” he says proudly. “We all get on and we don’t have any arguments. We work on things as a group because that’s what a band’s supposed to be: a unit of people coming together.

“Richard’s been our drummer now for nearly 40 years. Doug’s a really good bass player; and when you’ve got a really solid rhythm section, you can go off into different areas. Tim is really good on the synths and Magnus can double up on the keyboards and the guitar. And, like I say, now everybody comes to the fore and can sing. And to think they tried not to do it for so long!”

But what of the work in progress with famed dance and electronics producer William Orbit? As revealed last year, Hawkwind have begun recording their next album, though Orbit’s production commitment to the project hasn’t been as exclusive as might have been desired.

“He’s in Jamaica recording a reggae artist who is in prison,” laughs Brock. “He wanted me to do some synthesiser on that. I think that’s what he’s up to. I’ve got a lot of his stuff that he sent me, and he’s got some of ours. He’s quite busy at the moment.”

He chuckles again, revelling in the time and space he’s afforded himself. “We have just come back from touring, so who knows what’s gonna happen next?” And with that, Dave Brock looks ahead to the future once more.