Death metal, black metal, thrash metal; ubiquitous labels that remain near and dear to our hearts, but what about devil metal? That one doesn’t get as much love or airplay as it should. NunSlaughter, devil metal’s fiercest and foremost practitioners, have just released Satanic Chaos Legions, their newest slab of good ol’ rotten punishing blasphemy. Decades deep into the game, NunSlaughter actually seem to have a new lease on life (or death) as Satanic Chaos Legions is their first release on industry titan Mike Gitter’s powerful new BLKIIBLK label. Standing side-by-side with label mates like Megadeth and the Cro-Mags, the stalwart Cleveland-based band answered the call with a powerful, suitably ugly statement of ill intent. Packed with slash-and-burn thrashers like “Jesus Fucking Dies” and putrid, pitch-black bursts of deadly hardcore-tinged metal like “Unsacrament” and “Rotten Messiah,” Satanic Chaos Legions is serious metal served up by an often overlooked band nearing their fourth decade of existence. I spoke to Don of the Dead about the band’s new record, new label, European tour and many other things. Mostly, we talked about metal and punk. The man is like a walking, talking archive of underground music. The following interview was edited for clarity and concision.
…
…
I’ve been listening to Satanic Chaos Legion the past few days. You have been working with Tormentor and his studio in recent years. He’s done your recent stuff. Did he produce this record as well? It has a powerful sound, but there’s still some dirt and grit on the songs.
Yeah, actually he did. Tormentor owns a studio called Mercinary Studios. It’s the same one that we recorded Red is the Color of Ripping Death at. And we also recorded parts of Angelic Dread there, and that was before he was even in the band. He’s actually behind all the microphones and all the dials and levels and whatnot. He produced it and engineered it and mixed it and mastered it. That was all him. And it’s great. The studio that we work at, Mercinary Studio, when we go in to rehearse, we’re actually in a studio. If we need to do a quick recording, he can set up a couple of mics and we can get a demo going. It’s great to have him be able to do all of that, it’s kind of all self-contained.
This is your first record on BLKIIBLK. How did you hook up with them? I also see that they specifically mentioned Slayer and Earth AD as influences on Satanic Chaos Legions. Were there any other different influences creeping into your writing?
Well, I think that was more the label’s way of giving reference points that your average metal fan would automatically understand and connect with. It could’ve been Deicide or whatever, but I think they thought those would grab the attention of a wider section of the metal-listening public. How we came to BLKIIBLK was through my talking with Mike Gitter, an old punk from Boston, who’s in charge of BLKIIBLK. It’s his label.
Did he write for Rip or Metal Maniacs? The name sounds familiar.
I’m not sure about that, but he did put together a book covering hardcore zines (xXx Fanzine (1983-1988) Hardcore and Punk in the 80s) and he worked for Roadrunner, Century Media and other places…He started building out BLKIIBLK and for a while they just had Megadeth, but now they have Biohazard, the Cro-Mags, Forbidden, 69 Eyes, this horror rock thing…Their parent company Frontiers Music is so big you’ve never heard of them. They own and control the catalogs of bands like Journey, Boston, Styx, Blue Öyster Cult…it’s more of a hard rock thing. Our bass player Malum and I were talking with Jamey Jasta from Hatebreed and then we got to talking with Mike and we let him hear the record when he was still at Century Media and basically we weren’t the type of thing Century Media was looking for…they’re more in the market for bands like Amon Amarth…bigger sounding bands, you know…he said “This is a good record. Keep shopping it around.” After about three months or so, he had left Century Media and we talked again and here we are.
We’re in a great company. We’re really punching above our weight. These are all big name bands we’re surrounded by. It’s been amazing so far. I actually got to catch up with Mike in Milwaukee at the fest (Milwaukee Metal Fest) and we were talking and Frontiers came up, and I said, “We’re kind of known for doing splits, so my dream is now to have a NunSlaughter/BOC split.”
That would be amazing!
Well, we might be the only people who think so. I’m not sure you can pull something like that off just because some idiot in Cleveland wants to do it…(laughs).
Since you brought up splits, I was joking recently that you may be the only band in Merzbow’s league in terms of sheer volume of releases. I tried to count them on Metal Archives and I gave up after 100, and there were WAY more after that. Do you have an idea of how many releases you’ve put out into the world? Is there anyone that you’re aware of, if not you?
Somewhere around 200 releases, but not 100% sure (laughs). A lot of them are ultra-limited, like 50 copies of a bad-quality tape of a show from 20 years ago. Or, it was someone who was at a show or heard a show on YouTube, or whatever. I’ll get contacted by fans and they’ll ask me if they can release these things and usually I’ll work with them, give them logos, maybe work on layouts and, of course, I’ll make sure I get a few myself. I think the most we’ve had in a year was 14 releases, but those included like rehearsal tapes and stuff. What’s funny is that there are a handful of things missing from Metal Archives.
The person I go to is a guy named Sebastien Fries, a collector from France. I met him like 20 years ago, selling stuff on eBay and what had happened is, I fucked up and sent him the wrong package. He wrote and was like, “Hey, I have these records and I don’t think they belong to me.” I actually asked him if he could send them to Denmark or wherever, and he did. I said I’ll send what you ordered and a bunch of other cool shit. I ended up sending him NunSlaughter test pressings, backstage passes…all kinds of shit. Being a complete stranger, he did that, and we’ve been in touch ever since. He was like, “By the way, I have these records,” and he sent me this picture of a shit ton of NunSlaughter records.
Since then, we’ve met and hung out six to eight times, basically whenever we get to Europe. I always make sure I have some stuff to give him. Looking forward to seeing him when we get there next week! I have a box of handwritten lyrics and all kinds of stuff I can’t wait to give him this time around. To go back to your original question: we aren’t in the same league as Agathocles and Sabbat in terms of releases. Agathocles have like 500. I started writing them back in the ‘80s. We did a split 7’ with them. We actually did splits with both bands I mentioned, Sabbat as well. I’m a fan of both bands. We played Japan and I got to meet Gezol. He doesn’t speak a lot of English and I don’t speak a lot of Japanese, but we hung out and made it work for a minute…(laughs).
You recently characterized this emphasis on releasing things as a “compulsion” and said, “I have to release, or I begin to believe NunSlaughter is fading away.” Can you talk more about that? It’s fascinating, especially now that music exists in some ephemeral digital netherworld to most people. Do you ever worry about how much tangible music releases seem only to appeal to a shrinking number of people?
I’ve spoken to quite a few of my friends about this. The idea of physical media dying…even back in the early/mid ‘90s when vinyl really started taking a backseat to CDs. I used to buy a record, bring it home, sit in front of my stereo, flip the record over, and play both sides. I’d study the cover, look at the band’s t-shirts on the back and what bands were they representing. Part of me is going to be gone as well if this dies completely. CDs are coming back some, as are tapes, but man, I can’t tell you how many times I bought Holy Diver. For a long time, I had a tape player in my car and you know, tapes warp, get soggy, get eaten or whatever and I was like, “Fuck, I need to buy this again.” I remember having Quadrophenia on 8-track way back and that got eaten. I was crushed. That’s my album. I remember so many of my friends dumping all of their CDs and everything on those little Apple MP3 things (iPods) and then selling their shit. Then the players crashed or songs got pulled off of the streaming services and they’re like, “Fuck I can’t find this…I need to go get it again.”
In terms of it being a “compulsion,” it’s definitely more of compulsion, in my mind, to put out releases so people don’t forget the band exists. Every few months, ideally, so people can always be like “Hey, who’s the band?” or “Oh yeah, I remember them. They’re cool.” There are small labels all over the world now. For example, a small label in Malaysia can do a tape for cheap, making like 100-150 copies and it’s basically free distribution and all of a sudden, after a bit, you can go do a tour there. There’s this guy from Singapore and he’d write me and buy a 7’ and I’d send him like five, so he could trade them, give them out at shows, whatever. This happened a number of times. He’d buy something, and I’d send extras, and then, sure enough, we were eventually able to go and play shows there. Suddenly, we have a presence in Singapore. I finally got to meet the guy and I literally was like, “I think we’re here because of you. Our presence here is down to you.”
That’s such a cool story. You’ve been quoted as saying that you “realized long ago that I’d rather make music a hobby I love than a business I hate.” That clearly indicates that you aren’t in this for the money/fame or what have you. You’ve managed to take NunSlaughter pretty far, toured the globe, etc. What keeps you motivated at this point to “keep spitting fresh venom,” BLKIIBLK put it, beyond simply the love of metal?
Fear of failure. I just need to continue working. I’ve never tried to shake this loose. We started this band in high school and you know how that goes. People go their different ways, different directions. One guy went directly into the army. Another went to college. Another married his high school sweetheart and had to start a career, etc. You know how it is. I started college, but I could never shake this urge that I had a few more songs in me. So, I said, “Let’s go ahead and make a tape.” I got a job and then I would put whatever I could into another tape.
I can’t quite say that this is a hobby because it was and is super important to me. I was constantly writing to people, tape trading. It was always there. Always a part of me. Nothing else in my life fills that void. There’s always someone who’ll be like “Hey, what’s going on with NunSlaughter?” and that pushes us forward. We’re obviously not some big organizational concern like Obituary or Deicide. We’ve never gotten anywhere near the level of what those bands achieved. Money, multi-album deals, public band member fights and disputes, etc. NunSlaughter never had that. It’s hard, though, because over the years people come and go, and you have to regroup from time to time. You meet people who say all they want to do is tour. Then they tour and decide they don’t want to tour. I get it. Touring isn’t for everyone.
It’s also a point of pride. I mentioned high school earlier and there are still three friends from that era that I keep in touch with, and man, they’re on a second marriage, maybe, or close to having grandkids, kids in college, the whole deal, and they’re surprised and genuinely elated that I’ve managed to keep this going. Like, “I can’t believe you’re still doing that band. It’s so cool.” That makes me feel really good.
Now, how much longer can I keep doing this? Those questions have definitely started to pop up. I don’t know if I can see myself doing this at 65 or whatever. We’re still at the point where we want every show we play to have the audience be like “Wow, that’s really good.” And I definitely feel like we’re still capable of doing that. Hopefully, we can go out on top and know when that is, if that makes sense. The last thing I want to do is go out and be embarrassing. You know when you go out and see someone and it’s fucking terrible. Embarrassing. I’m not going to mention any names. (Pauses). Ok, Don Dokken. He looks and sounds absolutely terrible…It’s like, man, just let people have their memories of Under Lock and Key. David Lee Roth, one of the greatest frontmen of all-time, is just so bad right now. Nails on a chalkboard bad.
You mentioned talking punk rock with Mike Gitter and you also said in an interview that one of the reasons you bonded with John from Profanatica was through his love of punk. What punk influences you?
Too many to name. Dead Kennedys. Minor Threat, The Descendants, 7 Seconds, Bad Religion, Jerry’s Kids, Gang Green. Some of these younger Cleveland guys have been turning me onto all of this Japanese punk and hardcore from the ‘80s that I wasn’t fully tuned into back then like Gauze, GISM, and The Stalin. Cleveland’s a great spot for hardcore. We’ve had some well-known bands like Mushroomhead and, of course, Chimaira. Our bass player Malum used to play in Integrity. Before that, he was in a band called Nine Shocks Terror and another called the Gordon Solie Motherfuckers. He’s been at it since he was really young.
When I first moved to Cleveland in like 1999-2000, we actually played with Nine Shocks Terror. A few years ago, Tormentor was like, “You gotta meet this guy,” and we hooked up and it was funny when eventually we realized we’d actually played together like 24 years ago or whatever. These guys, man. They don’t even remember all the bands they’re in. American Werewolves was another. Ancient VVisdom, like this weird Texas death punk thing. We’ll be talking sometimes and Malum or Tormentor will be like “oh yeah, I was on that record too.”Cleveland’s like that. Tormentor’s brother Nate (from Ancient VVisdom) is going to Europe with us to do our merch. Malum’s been great though. He’s the guy you watch when you see us live. People just react to him. He’s got his spikes and he’s going crazy and he looks like this terrifying black metal guy. Meanwhile, when you meet him after the show, he’s like the nicest dude.
As you mentioned, you’re heading to Europe at the end of June. Returning to Obscene Extreme amongst other festivals and club dates. You just played the Milwaukee Metal Fest. Big things are happening in the live arena. Talk a little more about these things. And do you have any plans to tour the states later this year?
It has been about 12 years since the last time we played Obscene Extreme. Very excited! That was Tormentor’s first tour. That was the Deathcharge tour. We did a tour with Centinex and Demonic, which resulted in the European Deathcharge split. Both bands are now active again. Martin (Schulman) from Centinex runs Dreamtide Music and he books us over there. He and I met tape-trading in the ‘90s and have really gotten to know each other over the years. When we first met in person, it was like someone you’ve known your whole life. It has been a few years since the last European tour. That was with the previous bass player who said all he wanted to do was tour and then afterwards was like, “Don, I don’t think I want to tour.” So we’re excited to go back with this version of the band.
We’re hitting one new country: Romania. It will be NunSlaughter’s first time playing there! I’ve actually been there before because my other thing is motorcycles. Took a trip through the Carpathians. Gonzo camping. Just find some trees, string up a hammock. It was wild, though. All kinds of signs and alerts: Bears in the area. I’ve been on trips through Scotland, Vietnam…I was supposed to go to Tunisia recently. Some of the sets they used for Tatooine in Star Wars are supposed to still be there, but that got derailed because my buddy I travel with has health issues. We’re hoping to do a smaller trip up around Lake Huron and camp in Michigan. Did you ever see that show with Ewan McGregor (Long Way Around) where he rides his bike around the world? I just need someone to pay me…(laughs).
Milwaukee was great! We had the best time slot, I swear. There are three stages and they try to time it so one band will begin on a stage right when another ends. We played right in between Monstrosity and Immolation, and then Acid Bath started playing upstairs. It was fuckin cool. We were on one of the smaller stages, but I’d say there were around 1,500-2000 people looking at us. I don’t know this for sure, but I suspect Mike Gitter may have put in a good word for us to Jamey Jasta and said, “Hey, can give these guys a good slot?”
We both grew up in Pittsburgh and it has been really cool to read your interviews over the years where you’ve mentioned specific bands, venues and record stores, particularly the PGH institution known as Eide’s Entertainment. Talk about your memories of that time.
Eide’s was such an education, man! The people who worked there steered me in the right direction without fail. There was a great scene bubbling up at that time with killer local bands like Doomwatch, Dream Death, Half Life, Eviction…
Alright, so you mentioned Eviction and they had this shirt that was legendary in my high school and it was Mickey Mouse wearing combat boots. The dude that had that was royalty, but more importantly, did you know their guitarist and Eides mainstay Rob Tabachka or “Rob T”…
Yes, oh my god! He was the buyer at Eides for decades. He would bring in stuff like the piss yellow Bathory and Manowar’s Into Glory Ride. He was very important to my musical education and a great guy. I saw him a few years ago. I was a typical heavy metal, rocker kid and I met this guy at my high school and I feel like this is a typical metal fan story. He was like, “Do you like the heavier stuff?” I was like, “Yeah man, Maiden and Priest,” and he was like, “No, the heavier stuff.” And, of course, he made me a mix-tape that had Trouble, Fates Warning, Mercyful Fate, Hellhammer, all this stuff… and it was like, how haven’t I heard of these bands? I had to go find this stuff. Like, this isn’t stuff you can get at Camelot at the mall. My mom would give me like two bucks a day for lunch, and of course I wouldn’t eat and just scavenge stuff that my friends didn’t want to save up that 10 bucks for Eides. My friend and I would end up taking the bus and walking through the city.
The fliers at Eides also ended up being crucial. I saw one for a show at the Electric Banana. I went, and at that show Ted Williams came up to me and said, “Hey, do you like Celtic Frost? My band Dream Death is playing here next week.” I was just blown away by Dream Death. They were such a great band. We became friends, and through Ted, I started going to parties and meeting musicians and bands. Drinking beer, of course. I was like 14-15 and these guys were 21 and that was my entry into this burgeoning underground scene in Pittsburgh. It was a magical time. Even back then, I was writing to people and I was writing to the guys in Revenant and Rigor Mortis. That’s how I got to know John McEntee. Back then, there weren’t that many places to play and our communication led to them saying, “Hey, we have fans in Pittsburgh!” Yeah, probably like 10…(laughs). But they would come down and play. This was not long before John quit Revenant to form Incantation. And then, of course, once they got going, Paul wanted to do something more extreme and that obviously became Profanatica. But it was this cool little organic nexus between Pittsburgh, New York, and New Jersey for a little while there.
For those who don’t know, Rigor Mortis became Immolation once Ross Dolan joined. John did a podcast a few years ago with Ross, myself, Hank from Revenant, Mark from Rottrevore and Sharon from Derketa where we got to reconnect after all these years and talk about how this all developed in our little section of the world. It was awesome. I joke that John is the Sammy Davis Jr. of the Death Metal Underground. He’s the hardest-working guy in the business. We got to catch up in Milwaukee. Three hours to just hang out. It was cool. When we were in North Carolina this last time, he came out to the show with Hank, who I hadn’t seen outside of doing that podcast in many, many years.
Any last things you’d like to say about Satanic Chaos Legions before we go?
I really hope people spin it. If I heard a record by someone like 10 years ago and didn’t like it, I admit I usually don’t give people another chance. I really hope that doesn’t happen here, where people are like, “I heard a rehearsal tape of theirs from 20 years ago and they suck.” I hope people listen to this and give it a chance because we’re excited about it. Oh, and we’re getting a Flexi in Decibel next month. Very stoked about that! Decibel didn’t really want to work with us before because of the label we were associated with for a while, Hell’s Headbangers. As soon as they heard we weren’t with them, they offered us a Flexi. Decibel is one of the biggest (pretty much only) print metal mags left standing. They have a wide reach. Plus, they also set-up and put on tours and things like that, so who knows. We’re going to South America in November, but we don’t currently have much planned for the States outside of a few one-offs and here and there. Maybe a bigger band will offer a spot, or we’ll get a wild hair up our ass and put together a run of shows.
…
Satanic Chaos Legions is available now.